Meanwhile, back to the discussion of guns.

I have seen at least one TV newscast mention a handgun being found in a red towel, outside the back door. How did it get there? I don't recall any mention of Ludwig entering or leaving through the back door. Before Kara ran down the driveway to catch up with Ludwig, did she run out the back door and around the house? Did she have a gun stashed too, previous to that horrible mornings events, and drop it, while heading out the back? Has anyone heard further details on the gun in the red towel?

If that has been discussed earlier in this thread, excuse me for not reading all first. Being lazy kind of goes with being curious. Otherwise I would know .

LOLOLOL. I am very sorry, but so many adults today are absolutely clueless. Yes, children, however that, in many cases, means something far different today that it did even just 15 years ago now.

Some of the most sexually active people I have EVER known have been 13 year old girls. Even when the boys were still partly clueless, they were about as active as anyone could ever imagine, getting depressed if they didn't do it that day. Even being older and married now (and fortunately never did anything with any of them), it still baffles me how they could think that it was a daily necessity like they did.

Despite that, so many parents, and so many adults, always want to look at them and (at the very least, if they are under 16), think of their children as their little angles. The fact is that in this day and age they may be more experienced than some of your friends, and they may know a lot more than you realize. It is a sad and horrible fact.

Is this all kids? Absolutely not, but be aware, I knew a lot of them. On top of it all, the really striking thing is that the girls were typically more active than the boys, at least those that were active. Maybe it is because they are being hit on by the 16 year old guys, who knows, but be aware, they start it younger every year.

And sally is dead on. She may not have physically committed the act, but the term "sexually active" isn't restricted to the physical activity, as she was sexually active in the way she was swapping pictures if nothing else... and this may be more common than many people realize.

I never said it did. I am also not saying that we know her actions or not, as you have been pointing out (and with which I agree). I am merely pointing out that today's children are often far more experienced than people want to believe, since you kept pointing out "we are talking about a 14 year old child". It is something that I didn't think too much of when I was younger, but something that now sickens and saddens me.

In the end, the reason I mention that quite often when people talk about subjects like this is to try to wake parents up and make them realize that even at insanely young ages, children are getting experience with things that should be way beyond their years, and to make them realize that they NEED to be involved with their children, because so few parents that I have known in the past ever were. That is all.

And if you want to really be scared, I knew 9 year old girls back then who were too... how I managed to wait for my wife with the people I knew when I was younger baffles me, but I am very grateful for it.

Agreed and the mere fact that someone is 14 years old does not excuses or explain what has gone on.